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	<title>Comments on: Menu Icons Considered Ugly</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cafe.elharo.com/blogroll/menu-icons-considered-ugly/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/blogroll/menu-icons-considered-ugly/</link>
	<description>Longer than a blog; shorter than a book</description>
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		<title>By: Tichodroma</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/blogroll/menu-icons-considered-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-320528</link>
		<dc:creator>Tichodroma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/java/menu-icons-considered-ugly/#comment-320528</guid>
		<description>If there are to be icons in menus, I think we should be allowed to use them to the extreme, i.e. to get rid of the text. Can anyone tell me how to do so in gnome?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there are to be icons in menus, I think we should be allowed to use them to the extreme, i.e. to get rid of the text. Can anyone tell me how to do so in gnome?</p>
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		<title>By: annie</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/blogroll/menu-icons-considered-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-267161</link>
		<dc:creator>annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/java/menu-icons-considered-ugly/#comment-267161</guid>
		<description>You know, I use IntelliJ every day, and yes, I have most of those icons memorized, and I *don&#039;t* have the menu location of everything memorized. But, as a result, I only find the icons useful for finding things whose control key I knew yesterday, or which were on the toolbar I just closed.
But the most important function they serve is to let me know that something interesting might be there. 
There&#039;s a very useful activity you can do in a library - wandering up and down shelves looking for books that might be interesting. I use IntellJ&#039;s interface that way sometimes. 
OK - unscientific experiment. I happen to have IntelliJ open right now. I&#039;ll see how many of the icons showing I can identify. I knew what 33 of the 38 were. Interestingly, I knew some pretty obscure ones like &#039;show structure&#039;, while missing &#039;search&#039; and &#039;replace&#039;.


Speaking of stupid icons, why does every program have the toolbar for the file actions open by default? For all the time I spend watching experienced power users use computers, I&#039;ve *NEVER* seen anyone use those icons. Nor have I seen an inexperienced user use them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I use IntelliJ every day, and yes, I have most of those icons memorized, and I *don&#8217;t* have the menu location of everything memorized. But, as a result, I only find the icons useful for finding things whose control key I knew yesterday, or which were on the toolbar I just closed.<br />
But the most important function they serve is to let me know that something interesting might be there.<br />
There&#8217;s a very useful activity you can do in a library &#8211; wandering up and down shelves looking for books that might be interesting. I use IntellJ&#8217;s interface that way sometimes.<br />
OK &#8211; unscientific experiment. I happen to have IntelliJ open right now. I&#8217;ll see how many of the icons showing I can identify. I knew what 33 of the 38 were. Interestingly, I knew some pretty obscure ones like &#8217;show structure&#8217;, while missing &#8217;search&#8217; and &#8216;replace&#8217;.</p>
<p>Speaking of stupid icons, why does every program have the toolbar for the file actions open by default? For all the time I spend watching experienced power users use computers, I&#8217;ve *NEVER* seen anyone use those icons. Nor have I seen an inexperienced user use them.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerome</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/blogroll/menu-icons-considered-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-175152</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 22:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/java/menu-icons-considered-ugly/#comment-175152</guid>
		<description>Icons in the menu do have a function: they provide a pedagogic vector, so users can recognise the same icon on the toolbar.

It follows, therefore, that the only icons that should appear in a menu are the ones that appear on a toolbar. And since the ones that appear on a (properly designed) toolbar are likely only the frequent-by-many tasks, this means that on the menu only the frequently-used commands would have an icon.

That&#039;s the theory. Of course, then there&#039;s the Microsoft Office ribbon, wihch has thrown a wrench into that whole theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Icons in the menu do have a function: they provide a pedagogic vector, so users can recognise the same icon on the toolbar.</p>
<p>It follows, therefore, that the only icons that should appear in a menu are the ones that appear on a toolbar. And since the ones that appear on a (properly designed) toolbar are likely only the frequent-by-many tasks, this means that on the menu only the frequently-used commands would have an icon.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the theory. Of course, then there&#8217;s the Microsoft Office ribbon, wihch has thrown a wrench into that whole theory.</p>
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		<title>By: Elliotte Rusty Harold</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/blogroll/menu-icons-considered-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-135276</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliotte Rusty Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 11:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/java/menu-icons-considered-ugly/#comment-135276</guid>
		<description>Seems OpenOffice has this problem as well. I&#039;ve &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=82138&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;filed a bug&lt;/a&gt; on that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems OpenOffice has this problem as well. I&#8217;ve <a href="http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=82138" rel="nofollow">filed a bug</a> on that.</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/blogroll/menu-icons-considered-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-110889</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/java/menu-icons-considered-ugly/#comment-110889</guid>
		<description>loads of apps in osx have icons in menu items, even safari! mind you, IMHO menu&#039;s (along with dialogs) are one of the weakest bits of OSX and the Universal Access functionality doesn&#039;t particular address those fundamental weaknesses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>loads of apps in osx have icons in menu items, even safari! mind you, IMHO menu&#8217;s (along with dialogs) are one of the weakest bits of OSX and the Universal Access functionality doesn&#8217;t particular address those fundamental weaknesses.</p>
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		<title>By: Ernst de Haan</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/blogroll/menu-icons-considered-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-110131</link>
		<dc:creator>Ernst de Haan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/java/menu-icons-considered-ugly/#comment-110131</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a screenshot of a KDE menu: http://ernstdehaan.com/kde-menu.png</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a screenshot of a KDE menu: <a href="http://ernstdehaan.com/kde-menu.png" rel="nofollow">http://ernstdehaan.com/kde-menu.png</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brent</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/blogroll/menu-icons-considered-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-108849</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 06:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/java/menu-icons-considered-ugly/#comment-108849</guid>
		<description>i side with menu icons = ugly

i am lifetime artist -&gt; graphic designer -&gt; web designer/developer.  when i look at those little abstract icons, especially in a group, my mind is overwhelmed by the visual data.  they do not give me instant recognition of an action whatsoever -- it&#039;s like static.

as a visual person, the most important thing to me is visual consistency -- so that i can scan a list quickly and smoothly.  in seeming contradiction, when i&#039;m working, and i&#039;m thinking of my next action, i think of the words instead of some mostly-arbitrary little picture (pictures match objects, words match verbs).
 
icons in menus break that &#039;consistent left-side scanability&#039;, no longer allowing: &quot;The eye [to] scan straight down the left hand side looking for the item it wants&quot; -- agreed!

additionally, in applications such as firefox with disparate contributors, the icons are very dissimilar  -- and that, for me, is a jarring inconsistency that breaks the smooth flow of my menu usage to the point of frustration.

i agree that the Gimp screenshot above is a good example of a satisfactory use of menu items with and without icons -- but i still prefer zero icons in menus.

in fact, i came across this blog during a somewhat frantic/determined search to see how to rid my menus of such good-for-nothing visual garbage.

&quot;But really, icons donâ€™t belong in menus and never have. Menus are for text. Toolbars are for icons, and you shouldnâ€™t mix the two.&quot; -- i wish i said that...

final note: icons on a desktop are great for object/program recognition.  and some are even attractive little pieces of art in themselves...

now... on to learn how to get of those pesky little...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i side with menu icons = ugly</p>
<p>i am lifetime artist -&gt; graphic designer -&gt; web designer/developer.  when i look at those little abstract icons, especially in a group, my mind is overwhelmed by the visual data.  they do not give me instant recognition of an action whatsoever &#8212; it&#8217;s like static.</p>
<p>as a visual person, the most important thing to me is visual consistency &#8212; so that i can scan a list quickly and smoothly.  in seeming contradiction, when i&#8217;m working, and i&#8217;m thinking of my next action, i think of the words instead of some mostly-arbitrary little picture (pictures match objects, words match verbs).</p>
<p>icons in menus break that &#8216;consistent left-side scanability&#8217;, no longer allowing: &#8220;The eye [to] scan straight down the left hand side looking for the item it wants&#8221; &#8212; agreed!</p>
<p>additionally, in applications such as firefox with disparate contributors, the icons are very dissimilar  &#8212; and that, for me, is a jarring inconsistency that breaks the smooth flow of my menu usage to the point of frustration.</p>
<p>i agree that the Gimp screenshot above is a good example of a satisfactory use of menu items with and without icons &#8212; but i still prefer zero icons in menus.</p>
<p>in fact, i came across this blog during a somewhat frantic/determined search to see how to rid my menus of such good-for-nothing visual garbage.</p>
<p>&#8220;But really, icons donâ€™t belong in menus and never have. Menus are for text. Toolbars are for icons, and you shouldnâ€™t mix the two.&#8221; &#8212; i wish i said that&#8230;</p>
<p>final note: icons on a desktop are great for object/program recognition.  and some are even attractive little pieces of art in themselves&#8230;</p>
<p>now&#8230; on to learn how to get of those pesky little&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Alexp</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/blogroll/menu-icons-considered-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-104160</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/java/menu-icons-considered-ugly/#comment-104160</guid>
		<description>The new &lt;a href=&quot;http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6572890&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;RFE #6572890&lt;/a&gt; is filled
it might take a couple of days for this link to be available 

Thanks
alexp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The new <a href="http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6572890" rel="nofollow">RFE #6572890</a> is filled<br />
it might take a couple of days for this link to be available </p>
<p>Thanks<br />
alexp</p>
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		<title>By: Mikhail from Sun</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/blogroll/menu-icons-considered-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-100991</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikhail from Sun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/java/menu-icons-considered-ugly/#comment-100991</guid>
		<description>I cannot post the code. However I just want to say that &lt;i&gt;menuItem.setIcon(null)&lt;/i&gt; is sufficient to disable icons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot post the code. However I just want to say that <i>menuItem.setIcon(null)</i> is sufficient to disable icons.</p>
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		<title>By: Mikhail from Sun</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/blogroll/menu-icons-considered-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-100990</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikhail from Sun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/java/menu-icons-considered-ugly/#comment-100990</guid>
		<description>One more attempt:

There is the code, which creates the menu:
&lt;code&gt;
        Action[] actions = {leftAction, middleAction, rightAction};
        for (int i = 0; i &lt; actions.length; i++) {
        &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;menuItem = new JMenuItem(actions[i]);
        &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;menuItem.setIcon(null); //arbitrarily chose not to use icon
        &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;mainMenu.add(menuItem);
        }
&lt;/code&gt;
menuItem.setIcon(null) is sufficient to disable icons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more attempt:</p>
<p>There is the code, which creates the menu:<br />
<code><br />
        Action[] actions = {leftAction, middleAction, rightAction};<br />
        for (int i = 0; i &lt; actions.length; i++) {<br />
        &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;menuItem = new JMenuItem(actions[i]);<br />
        &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;menuItem.setIcon(null); //arbitrarily chose not to use icon<br />
        &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;mainMenu.add(menuItem);<br />
        }<br />
</code><br />
menuItem.setIcon(null) is sufficient to disable icons.</p>
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