Comments on: The Next Big Language? http://cafe.elharo.com/programming/the-next-big-language/ Longer than a blog; shorter than a book Sun, 12 Oct 2008 05:06:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Mohamed http://cafe.elharo.com/programming/the-next-big-language/#comment-276773 Mohamed Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:38:16 +0000 http://cafe.elharo.com/uncategorized/the-next-big-language/#comment-276773 Groovy/Grails are perfect for building applications that uses DSL, Spring, Hibernate, can you suggest an alternative that works out this purpose ? Groovy/Grails are perfect for building applications that uses DSL, Spring, Hibernate, can you suggest an alternative that works out this purpose ?

]]> By: Mass http://cafe.elharo.com/programming/the-next-big-language/#comment-125922 Mass Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:24:23 +0000 http://cafe.elharo.com/uncategorized/the-next-big-language/#comment-125922 "Java and C# are not going to be “it” and lately I’ve been worried that Java was bloating to the state that C++ was when everyone decided that Java was the next big language" LOL! That is why Java had to be implemented in ? What a farce this entire entry.. “Java and C# are not going to be “it” and lately I’ve been worried that Java was bloating to the state that C++ was when everyone decided that Java was the next big language”

LOL!

That is why Java had to be implemented in ?

What a farce this entire entry..

]]> By: Google working on a new JavaScript engine (hopefully, maybe) « Derivadow http://cafe.elharo.com/programming/the-next-big-language/#comment-70026 Google working on a new JavaScript engine (hopefully, maybe) « Derivadow Thu, 29 Mar 2007 22:08:06 +0000 http://cafe.elharo.com/uncategorized/the-next-big-language/#comment-70026 [...] Obviously this would makes a lot of sense for Google - and fits well with Steve Yegge’s post about the next big language. [...] [...] Obviously this would makes a lot of sense for Google - and fits well with Steve Yegge’s post about the next big language. [...]

]]> By: Elliotte Rusty Harold http://cafe.elharo.com/programming/the-next-big-language/#comment-69439 Elliotte Rusty Harold Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:58:42 +0000 http://cafe.elharo.com/uncategorized/the-next-big-language/#comment-69439 XQuery. :-) XQuery. :-)

]]> By: Fred http://cafe.elharo.com/programming/the-next-big-language/#comment-69417 Fred Wed, 28 Mar 2007 08:12:18 +0000 http://cafe.elharo.com/uncategorized/the-next-big-language/#comment-69417 This thread is over a month old, so Elliotte can you reveal what was the subject of that book you didn't write ?-) I'd venture erlang to get the ball rolling, but i barely know what i'm talking about. None of the languages you consider successful are particularly well equipped for parallel development, that much is sure. This thread is over a month old, so Elliotte can you reveal what was the subject of that book you didn’t write ?-) I’d venture erlang to get the ball rolling, but i barely know what i’m talking about. None of the languages you consider successful are particularly well equipped for parallel development, that much is sure.

]]> By: Philippe Lhoste http://cafe.elharo.com/programming/the-next-big-language/#comment-65299 Philippe Lhoste Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:19:40 +0000 http://cafe.elharo.com/uncategorized/the-next-big-language/#comment-65299 * I’m not sure it’s right to say the NBL is garbage collected, but it definitely doesn’t require manual memory management. Lua has a full garbage collector. * It is not object oriented. Lua, although it can do that too... * It is Turing complete. Otherwise, that's not a programming language, right? * It is platform independent. Lua, of course, including small embedded platforms. * There are already open and closed source implementations. Lua. Well, that's one implementation (the official one) with some variants... * It has reached 1.0. Oh, Lua is at version 5.1, so that's not it... :-) * I’m not sure it’s right to say the NBL is garbage collected, but it definitely doesn’t require manual memory management.
Lua has a full garbage collector.

* It is not object oriented.
Lua, although it can do that too…

* It is Turing complete.
Otherwise, that’s not a programming language, right?

* It is platform independent.
Lua, of course, including small embedded platforms.

* There are already open and closed source implementations.
Lua. Well, that’s one implementation (the official one) with some variants…

* It has reached 1.0.
Oh, Lua is at version 5.1, so that’s not it… :-)

]]> By: Laurent Szyster http://cafe.elharo.com/programming/the-next-big-language/#comment-62630 Laurent Szyster Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:28:22 +0000 http://cafe.elharo.com/uncategorized/the-next-big-language/#comment-62630 @john haro I'm not taking the comment about Python seriously, because it is not a serious comment. Actually, it is quite laughable. Because, as you explained, applications drive the adoption of software and there is a certain level of investment beyond which technological lock-in occurs: the alternative cost is too high. I also agree with you about the importance of JSON as a new network protocol http://laurentszyster.be/blog/json-is-the-model/ The reason why Java developers have a tendency to belittle Python is that it has been more successfull in many niches where all that matters is short-term productivity, high performances and long-term stability, not market muscle. Python has made its way to the back-office. Actually, it's been available in Java as Jython since 1997 ;-) Ten years later the Java community embrace what it disdained or shamefully tolerated, a Not Invented Here scripting language inside the JVM. Meanwhile Jim has ported Jython to the CRL and it apparently runs 5 times faster. I believe that's what makes Python adopters go frosty about JRuby ... even more if they adopted Java too. Like me. @john haro

I’m not taking the comment about Python seriously, because it is not a serious comment.

Actually, it is quite laughable.

Because, as you explained, applications drive the adoption of software and there is a certain level of investment beyond which technological lock-in occurs: the alternative cost is too high.

I also agree with you about the importance of JSON as a new network protocol

http://laurentszyster.be/blog/json-is-the-model/

The reason why Java developers have a tendency to belittle Python is that it has been more successfull in many niches where all that matters is short-term productivity, high performances and long-term stability, not market muscle.

Python has made its way to the back-office.

Actually, it’s been available in Java as Jython since 1997 ;-)

Ten years later the Java community embrace what it disdained or shamefully tolerated, a Not Invented Here scripting language inside the JVM. Meanwhile Jim has ported Jython to the CRL and it apparently runs 5 times faster. I believe that’s what makes Python adopters go frosty about JRuby … even more if they adopted Java too.

Like me.

]]> By: john haro http://cafe.elharo.com/programming/the-next-big-language/#comment-62604 john haro Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:57:37 +0000 http://cafe.elharo.com/uncategorized/the-next-big-language/#comment-62604 @Laurent: Don't take the Python comment so seriously. Also don't let your anger lead you to make wildly defensive claims against Java. Python is great, (I'm a Ruby fan myself), but in terms of current adoption, Java is still a top language on several different scales (TIOBE, Bookscan 3000 report). I'm not saying its the best, but why claim that Java is a failure? Back on topic: my opinion, i think the NBL is EMCAScript. But I should add that I'm not entirely sure that this NBL is going to sweep the world and take over. There are always going to be ruby and python people out there attacking windmills after all. I do think there needs to be a change however, Java and C# are not going to be "it" and lately I've been worried that Java was bloating to the state that C++ was when everyone decided that Java was the next big language. For those reasons, if you go by Stevey's criteria, ECMA/JavaScript is promising. The AJAX thing is definitely getting people across many languages involved. @Laurent: Don’t take the Python comment so seriously. Also don’t let your anger lead you to make wildly defensive claims against Java. Python is great, (I’m a Ruby fan myself), but in terms of current adoption, Java is still a top language on several different scales (TIOBE, Bookscan 3000 report). I’m not saying its the best, but why claim that Java is a failure?

Back on topic: my opinion, i think the NBL is EMCAScript. But I should add that I’m not entirely sure that this NBL is going to sweep the world and take over. There are always going to be ruby and python people out there attacking windmills after all.
I do think there needs to be a change however, Java and C# are not going to be “it” and lately I’ve been worried that Java was bloating to the state that C++ was when everyone decided that Java was the next big language.
For those reasons, if you go by Stevey’s criteria, ECMA/JavaScript is promising. The AJAX thing is definitely getting people across many languages involved.

]]> By: Stefan Winter http://cafe.elharo.com/programming/the-next-big-language/#comment-62455 Stefan Winter Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:30:11 +0000 http://cafe.elharo.com/uncategorized/the-next-big-language/#comment-62455 My bet is a language that is of a "higher level" than the 3rd generation OOP languages around. To put it in known terms you could call it a "Module Interconnection Language" or "Executable Architecture Description Language" It has to be platform independent by providing a common language syntax with fast bindings to 3rd level languages. It glues existing modules together without the (visible) overhead of SOAP (even so the compiler could translate module calls to remote SOAP requests). Implementations must be running on a JVM (and maybe within .Net) It has to provide module interconnection by means of "Complex Event Processing" with Events being generated by the language runtime. When connecting to Java these events could be generated by dynamic Aspects or ByteCode processing. Some EAI systems with workflow engines come close to the needed environment, but are vendor and domain specific and need way too much resources. Generally current languages are still to procedural to come near to a "higher level" without becomming too domain specific. What we need is a new declarative (like SQL did for database access) abstraction from our procedural languages My bet is a language that is of a “higher level” than the 3rd generation OOP languages around.
To put it in known terms you could call it a “Module Interconnection Language” or “Executable Architecture Description Language”

It has to be platform independent by providing a common language syntax with fast bindings to 3rd level languages.
It glues existing modules together without the (visible) overhead of SOAP (even so the compiler could translate module calls to remote SOAP requests).
Implementations must be running on a JVM (and maybe within .Net)

It has to provide module interconnection by means of “Complex Event Processing” with Events being generated by the language runtime.
When connecting to Java these events could be generated by dynamic Aspects or ByteCode processing.

Some EAI systems with workflow engines come close to the needed environment, but are vendor and domain specific and need way too much resources.

Generally current languages are still to procedural to come near to a “higher level” without becomming too domain specific.
What we need is a new declarative (like SQL did for database access) abstraction from our procedural languages

]]> By: Laurent Szyster http://cafe.elharo.com/programming/the-next-big-language/#comment-62419 Laurent Szyster Tue, 06 Mar 2007 12:11:00 +0000 http://cafe.elharo.com/uncategorized/the-next-big-language/#comment-62419 It's fun to hear a Java fan claim that Python is a failure. Because it is not Java that installs Windows XP on Thinkpad at first boot. Also, Java is not the standard system administration language for the Debian GNU/Linux distribution. And it's not Java that glue Google together. Python does all that. So, considering Python's quietness and all the hype about Java Applets, Java OS, Java Chips or Java everywhere, who failed to deliver on its promises? It’s fun to hear a Java fan claim that Python is a failure.

Because it is not Java that installs Windows XP on Thinkpad at first boot.

Also, Java is not the standard system administration language for the Debian GNU/Linux distribution.

And it’s not Java that glue Google together.

Python does all that.

So, considering Python’s quietness and all the hype about Java Applets, Java OS, Java Chips or Java everywhere, who failed to deliver on its promises?

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