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	<title>Comments on: Put The Login on the Front Page</title>
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	<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/ui/put-the-login-on-the-front-page/</link>
	<description>Longer than a blog; shorter than a book</description>
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		<title>By: Charles Boyung</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/ui/put-the-login-on-the-front-page/comment-page-1/#comment-669617</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Boyung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 18:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Barend - I know this is ancient and you are unlikely to still be following this, but your argument does not make much sense. The only way to do what you are saying would be to change the HTML on the home page to have the form point at a different target. The type of attack you make reference to is not something that can do this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barend &#8211; I know this is ancient and you are unlikely to still be following this, but your argument does not make much sense. The only way to do what you are saying would be to change the HTML on the home page to have the form point at a different target. The type of attack you make reference to is not something that can do this.</p>
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		<title>By: Barend Garvelink</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/ui/put-the-login-on-the-front-page/comment-page-1/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>Barend Garvelink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 May 2006 13:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/ui/put-the-login-on-the-front-page/#comment-452</guid>
		<description>As far as I can tell, that&#039;s entirely true at this time. (discounting various govt. agencies in all parts of the world)

If you pointed out that trojans and spyware are a much larger threat to one&#039;s credit card than any man-in-the-middle attacker, I&#039;d have been the first one to agree. 

That doesn&#039;t change anything about the flawed principle I pointed out. Every weakness is exploited at some point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I can tell, that&#8217;s entirely true at this time. (discounting various govt. agencies in all parts of the world)</p>
<p>If you pointed out that trojans and spyware are a much larger threat to one&#8217;s credit card than any man-in-the-middle attacker, I&#8217;d have been the first one to agree. </p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t change anything about the flawed principle I pointed out. Every weakness is exploited at some point.</p>
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		<title>By: Elijah Rhodes</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/ui/put-the-login-on-the-front-page/comment-page-1/#comment-435</link>
		<dc:creator>Elijah Rhodes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 16:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/ui/put-the-login-on-the-front-page/#comment-435</guid>
		<description>Fact o&#039; the Day: Number of &quot;Man in the Middle&quot; attacks on large, known companies: Zero.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fact o&#8217; the Day: Number of &#8220;Man in the Middle&#8221; attacks on large, known companies: Zero.</p>
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		<title>By: Barend Garvelink</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/ui/put-the-login-on-the-front-page/comment-page-1/#comment-415</link>
		<dc:creator>Barend Garvelink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 13:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/ui/put-the-login-on-the-front-page/#comment-415</guid>
		<description>There is a problem though -- security.

If you serve a login box over plain HTTP and post the data to HTTPS (as java.net in fact does), a man-in-the-middle attacker can simply redirect the HTML form and intercept your password; this is not much more difficult than intercepting a password sent back over plain HTTP. How many end-users are so vigilant as to check the action string of every form they post?

In other words: you can&#039;t send a login form over plain HTTP.

There are three alternatives at this point:
 1) simply forget it and log in over plain HTTP
 2) serve the entire homepage over HTTPS
 3) serve a secure login form in an iframe

Option 1 is very bad form for a company that has your creditcard number. I wouldn&#039;t want to do business over such a site, and I don&#039;t think you would either.

Option 2 is a scalability disaster.

Option 3 puts an (unacceptable) hit on accessibility.


As inconvienent as an extra page may be, it is a necessity (but of course no guarantee) for a secure login procedure that does not involve sending the entire homepage over HTTPS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a problem though &#8212; security.</p>
<p>If you serve a login box over plain HTTP and post the data to HTTPS (as java.net in fact does), a man-in-the-middle attacker can simply redirect the HTML form and intercept your password; this is not much more difficult than intercepting a password sent back over plain HTTP. How many end-users are so vigilant as to check the action string of every form they post?</p>
<p>In other words: you can&#8217;t send a login form over plain HTTP.</p>
<p>There are three alternatives at this point:<br />
 1) simply forget it and log in over plain HTTP<br />
 2) serve the entire homepage over HTTPS<br />
 3) serve a secure login form in an iframe</p>
<p>Option 1 is very bad form for a company that has your creditcard number. I wouldn&#8217;t want to do business over such a site, and I don&#8217;t think you would either.</p>
<p>Option 2 is a scalability disaster.</p>
<p>Option 3 puts an (unacceptable) hit on accessibility.</p>
<p>As inconvienent as an extra page may be, it is a necessity (but of course no guarantee) for a secure login procedure that does not involve sending the entire homepage over HTTPS.</p>
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