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	<title>Comments on: Objections to Refactoring</title>
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	<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/web/refactoring-html/objections-to-refactoring/</link>
	<description>Longer than a blog; shorter than a book</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 10:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Elliotte Rusty Harold</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/web/refactoring-html/objections-to-refactoring/#comment-237852</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliotte Rusty Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/web/refactoring-html/objections-to-refactoring/#comment-237852</guid>
		<description>Simon,

This is only one part of the book. Testing is coming up in Chapter 2. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon,</p>
<p>This is only one part of the book. Testing is coming up in Chapter 2. <img src='http://cafe.elharo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: zoglmannk</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/web/refactoring-html/objections-to-refactoring/#comment-237850</link>
		<dc:creator>zoglmannk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/web/refactoring-html/objections-to-refactoring/#comment-237850</guid>
		<description>Re: Simon

There are many kinds of refactorings that can be done on a non-trivial project without significant amounts of testing. For example, you can safely replace new Integer(5) with Integer.valueOf(5) almost without reguard, unless the Integer is being used as a lock and it needs to be a unique object. Synchronizing on Integers is not overly common and it is something that you are likely to be aware of when changing some source code.

It really depends on the complexity of the refactoring. Using eclipse to rename methods is pretty darn safe. If something could cause overshadowing or a hiccup, eclipse has decent warnings. Or how about getting rid of System.out.println and replacing it with a logging facility? You need to decide on what kind of message is being written out. It is tedious and there is no real way to automate this change over. Out of the 1,000s of changes I made in moving our code base over to log4j, I'm not aware of any bugs introduced even after more than a year of it being in production.

I have done non-trivial refactorings and yes it does take time to both implement and fix everything that you might have broken. And I agree this kind of refactoring isn't something that you will do in your random spare time. But I have a feeling the author is getting at the simpler kinds of refactorings. 

However, I generally agree that simple refactorings can be done in your down time. It makes maintenance much easier. And it improves your own programming by pounding into your head not to do x, y, or z. I'm a proponent of refactoring code, especially code that you are intimately familiar with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Simon</p>
<p>There are many kinds of refactorings that can be done on a non-trivial project without significant amounts of testing. For example, you can safely replace new Integer(5) with Integer.valueOf(5) almost without reguard, unless the Integer is being used as a lock and it needs to be a unique object. Synchronizing on Integers is not overly common and it is something that you are likely to be aware of when changing some source code.</p>
<p>It really depends on the complexity of the refactoring. Using eclipse to rename methods is pretty darn safe. If something could cause overshadowing or a hiccup, eclipse has decent warnings. Or how about getting rid of System.out.println and replacing it with a logging facility? You need to decide on what kind of message is being written out. It is tedious and there is no real way to automate this change over. Out of the 1,000s of changes I made in moving our code base over to log4j, I&#8217;m not aware of any bugs introduced even after more than a year of it being in production.</p>
<p>I have done non-trivial refactorings and yes it does take time to both implement and fix everything that you might have broken. And I agree this kind of refactoring isn&#8217;t something that you will do in your random spare time. But I have a feeling the author is getting at the simpler kinds of refactorings. </p>
<p>However, I generally agree that simple refactorings can be done in your down time. It makes maintenance much easier. And it improves your own programming by pounding into your head not to do x, y, or z. I&#8217;m a proponent of refactoring code, especially code that you are intimately familiar with.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/web/refactoring-html/objections-to-refactoring/#comment-237800</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/web/refactoring-html/objections-to-refactoring/#comment-237800</guid>
		<description>What a load of poppycock. The biggest objection to refactoring, which isn't even mentioned in the article, is that refactoring done on any non-trivial project/product also requires a non-trivial amount of retesting.

--
Simon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a load of poppycock. The biggest objection to refactoring, which isn&#8217;t even mentioned in the article, is that refactoring done on any non-trivial project/product also requires a non-trivial amount of retesting.</p>
<p>&#8211;<br />
Simon</p>
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		<title>By: web design company</title>
		<link>http://cafe.elharo.com/web/refactoring-html/objections-to-refactoring/#comment-237319</link>
		<dc:creator>web design company</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafe.elharo.com/web/refactoring-html/objections-to-refactoring/#comment-237319</guid>
		<description>This sounds good, but I wonder if it's actually true: &#62;Sixty minutes of refactoring done in six-minute increments at various times during the day has close to the same impact as one 60-minute block of refactoring. I'm tempted to say it isn't, because effective refactoring requires thinking about the structure of the code as it stands, and as it should be. This is hard, possibly harder than writing the code in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sounds good, but I wonder if it&#8217;s actually true: &gt;Sixty minutes of refactoring done in six-minute increments at various times during the day has close to the same impact as one 60-minute block of refactoring. I&#8217;m tempted to say it isn&#8217;t, because effective refactoring requires thinking about the structure of the code as it stands, and as it should be. This is hard, possibly harder than writing the code in the first place.</p>
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